I will post this elsewhere later but I thought ( just for a start ) many of you AF'ers have other medical conditions beyond AF and many have joint issues.
Mine is a left shoulder issue, I have been prescribed rest, prescribed pain killers, have had a steroid injection ......... and there is just no damn improvement ... these so called health care professionals are just junk and playing guessing games with me.
The question is ............. to find out what is going on in the shoulder joint would a MRI reveal anything that guesswork doesn't ? Further, is an MRI appropriate for someone whose AF is coming out of a 4 year sleep ?
Cheers,
John
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BenHall1
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Answer to the first question: it would depend what’s going on in your shoulder as to whether an MRI reveals anything new. But it can certainly rule out certain conditions. In the UK we’re beginning to catch up with the rest of Europe in using MRI for a wide range of investigations. Whether you are offered an MRI to some extent depends on where you live.
Answer to 2nd question: i’m not the right person to answer this. I’m nervous about using an electric toothbrush yet alone going for an MRI! It’s an important question and I hope you get some sensible answers.
A MRI certainly would be helpful in determining the exact cause of your shoulder pain. Whether it would be helpful in determining therapy is questionable. I have never heard nor read of afib being affected by a MRI. If anyone has heard of an effect I'd be very interested in it. etheral
There is nothing to contraindicate an MRI if you have AF. Unless you have metal implants somewhere - I have 2 hip and knee but it has never been a problem the technician just needs to know if you have any metal implants and where they are. I had an MRI a week ago and no problems. I don't know if they may be contraindicated if you have a pacemaker as I haven't got one.
l would have thought an ordinary x-ray would have been adequate for joint pain. Osteoarthritis of my knee (now in both legs) was diagnosed with x-ray. Any investigation deeper would probably be an ultrasound.
Um xray for bone breakages and joint hard surfaces.
MRI for soft tissue like tears, full, partial or tiny. They never improve themselves. Surgery best.
Impingement could show a spur growing and restricts movement. Tears have hanging down meniscus which gets in the way.
My left shoulder was done in 2007. A slash at the top, surgeon cut into joint rotator cuff, manipulated the shoulder to mend the movement as sometimes in the accident your awkward movement causes shoulder to go out of position.
I ended up with a plate with screws but I have full movement and function. Pain was there for months.
Well l am not medically trained and can only relate to how l was diagnosed. Treatments are changing all the time and my diagnosis was several years ago. You sound as if you have had a difficult, painful time and hope you are now improved. Take care.
Shoulders are tricky and imaging like MRI's can be helpful, but also often inconclusive. In my case, it was rotator cuff/impingement issues.
My ortho gave me shot. Didn't help. Then wanted me to go on pain killers for life. Said that's what he is doing for the same condition! I took them for a couple of weeks and stopped because of the side effects. Did Physical therapy (PT) for a couple of months which was helpful, but the pain persisted. Took about a year for shoulder to be completely pain free. Feels normal now unless I stress it too much. Doc's push pain killers a lot but often rest, time and patience is the best route along with some PT.
Have you seen a skeletal/muscular specialist? I know we have a specialised unit nearby for that sort of thing as my son was recently referred and had excellent treatment and did have MRI. I used a private clinic in Devon and you could ask to be referred but you may need to travel.
Go to NHS site and search Musculoskeletal Services. Good luck.
Thanks. Well it seems my surgery are promoting the path you have described. I saw my local MSK Interface Specialist on 17 April. His response was to not use my left arm, no reaching, no stretching and no lifting. He also gave me a steroid injection ( 20mg Kenalag ). Then sent me home having put me through a range of painful test motions to see what I could and couldn't do. Said he'd phone me in 3 weeks ( that's 8 May ) to see how I was. No mention of an MRI. Yep, I did need to travel - 30 miles each way.
So I'm still in shoulder pain, still scoffing 4 to 6 CoCodomol 30/500 a day ..... which is what prompted my post about MRI. So I will now put the heavies on this guy and get his response to an MRI 🙂given your comments. Thanks again. Meanwhile I'm now back under the care of a Cardio Consultant !! ( More seperately ).
I’d be more concerned about steroid injections. I had a strong steroid cream daily for 2 weeks on my neck for a rash. Went into AF at the end of it. I discussed with Cardiologist who said it could be a possibility given the location.
Thanks for that. I have had years of increasing pain from the left shoulder - however - in mid November I tripped over our cat and as I sailed through the air I thrust my left hand out very violently to ease the impact damage as I hit the floor. XRays were taken that same day and no damage had been sustained to the shoulder bones. 6 weeks later I was sent for an ultrasound and that diagnosis was that I had torn the rotator cuff tendon.
That seems to have settled leaving now much, much worse pain from the original pain on the shoulder bones. I am about to reply to CDreamer which may cover your reply/ comments also.
I’ve had a cardiac MRI to see if there was any damage to my heart causing or resulting from AF, so wouldn’t imagine a MRI elsewhere on your body would be an issue. I’m sure the stress from pain doesn’t help your AF, hope you get it sorted soon
Rotator cuff is hard to treat but having had problems with them myself would say do the exercises to strengthen the whole shoulder girdle and allow a year. 😢
Thank you. And this is my problem - which even my MSK Specialist acknowledges, there is so much pain I couldn't evenlift my left arm to save my life. Apart from that .......... wait for it .......... 21st Century modern NHS Britain.
The MSK guy put my name forward for Physiotherapy . My details have been assessed and prioritised and added to their list of waiting times. Just as well, because of the pain, sod that!
My MSK guy is phoning me on Wednesday to discuss my progress. I just cannot get through to these idiots where the pain is .... I try and describe it ... like - it ois under and inside the outer joint as you touch the top left shoulder with the right hand fingers. Unfortunately - its all done by phone these days so I can't actually point to the precise point on a medical model.
Look, this turkey has even given me a steriod injection, 3 weeks ago and it hasn't even touched the pain. All that is happening is they are playing guessing games. Useless!!
Apologies for the rant. No damn wonder my AF is kicking off after 4 years asleep !!
Um I had 3.1/2 years of ACC refusing to pay for my R Shoulder inner cuff and restriction.
Being late again for their decision I threatened to take them for review again.
The thing is that if they suspect busititus and they pair it with 'frozen shoulder' orthopaedics won't operate as you will come out still frozen.
Reading busititus is different from the f.s.
My first accident was in Sept 2020. It got worse with physiotherapist giving me a rough massage and wrong exercises.
I definitely had restriction, pain waking me up 5 times night.
I refused a steriod injection. Couldn't leave my hand up on the steering wheel, couldn't indicate moving arm up.
I fell in August 2021 and pain left but restriction there.
I still was missing out on fishing, housework, putting some clothes on and bowling etc.
I went through 2 orthopaedic surgeons but the 2nd was told to remain on 1st claim which was wrong. So both dismissed at review.
The 3rd orthopaedic had me MRI again and compared both MRI (1 done in March 2021 and 2nd July 2022).
I had the operation Oct 30 2023. The 3rd orthopaedic saw the almost full tear and small ones, place a detachment of part of inner rotator cuff and he shaved down a 1/2 inch off a bone a spur had grown due to not being able to use it.
I welcomed my arm movement back. Success in every way. I ditched the sling in a week except in crowds.
Two holes on top of my shoulder.
But beware with my knee MRI it missed a terrible, so bad tear that 3 years later when I struggled and asked for surgeon to get in. He had to remove the meniscus. Success as the knee remained stable. A bit sore when I carry heavy bags or cross the other leg over it. It is best to raise it in bed with less weight on top.
Steriod injections damage the muscle. Usually it will keep the pain away for 3 mths only. In a lifetime one can have only x amount of steriod injections.
I know that steriod injections upset my thyroxine med. I take daily to arrive at TSH1.7.
I felt I needed a manipulation and I did this when I fell in the 2nd accident.
You may have a dislocated shoulder but mine didn't show in the MRI.
Thanks for those comments .......... you made two that are relevant ... 1) pain waking me up 5 times night. - Thank goodness only once a night for me. But then I get up for an hour or so until it all settles then back to bed and sleep.
2)I refused a steriod injection. Couldn't leave my hand up on the steering wheel, couldn't indicate moving arm up.
Well I took the steroid injection .... did nothing for me at all ( here in UK it was Kenalog 20mg ). INTERESTING THOUGH ........... in my car I can only keep my left arm holding the steering wheel at about the 7 position on a clock face. Cannot move the indicator lever ( on left side of steering coloumn ) unless I move my whole body forward and touch it with my fingers. Similarly with Hazard button, I have to lean right forward. I have a medium size car, a Nissan Juke.
Some of the best relief I get ( apart from CoCodomol 30/500 ), is to lean forward and let my left arm hang then I let it rotate by itself.
At least I've got a guy who appears to be a good Cardio Consultant. 😂😂😂
As an aside, it's amazing how many AF sufferers report left shoulder problems. It's a regular theme on here, I've had a 'frozen' left shoulder (which I sorted out myself but that's another story), and two of my friends with AF have ongoing left shoulder pain issues.
Sorry to hear of your continuing pains.Can't help about the shoulder but I've had two MRIs, one of them an hour long cardiac MRI (not great with claustrophobia) and no warnings or issues about them with AF.......... the cardiac one was obviously referred by my heart consultant.
If your shoulder pain is caused by rotator cuff tendonitis it could take months to get better. I have had this in both shoulders . In the left it took 9 months to improve. I did not have a steroid jab as my physio advised that they can make things worse by degrading the tendon(although somebody I know who had one described it as a miracle! ). I did have acupuncture and ultrasound without much improvement. The pain was so bad I could not lift my arm to fix my bun and it was one of the reasons I retired from my part time dance teaching job. When I got it a couple of years later in the right shoulder it was not quite as painful but it still lasted 5/6months. I would not have an MRI unless looking for cancer. It depends what contrast they use. If they use gadolinium there is a risk of reaction to it and as I react to most chemicals badly I would not take the risk for a torn tendon.
well I’ve had brain tumour surgery and so many MRIs since 2016, one ablation, 5 cardioversions, X-rays and CT scans when I fell badly. So in snswer to your question as far as I’m concerned none of those things affected my afib/flutter.
I did have a few thumps snd bumps during the MRI but I’m sure that was because I hate being in the tunnel and in England they are nothing like you see on American TV films - ours are small, narrow, squashy and extremely noisy
Now both my hubby and I have pacemakers, the hospital do have to do something either to the machine or our pacemakers my husband has had an MRI but I’m not sure what was done, but he was fine
If you are worried ask your GP, cardiologist or EP
Hi, I'd have thought X-Ray and CT scan would come before MRI. If you have pacemaker MRI needs bit more organising see bantam12 comment and could mean a long wait.
If its arthritis which is the usual medics cop out for aching joints then its unlikely anything will be done. No advance in arthritis care for over 100yrs. I've found googling the problem and looking for exercises etc can help. My shoulder which gave me pain every night has been helped by a video re sleep posture, really simple but never suggested by physios.
MRI is key for soft tissue problems. It can reveal damage to ligaments and/or joints. I have had a few MRI's and it has never caused my AF to act up. Good luck.
in the context in which I originally wrote - that you seem to have changed ..... "these so called health care professionals are just junk" - they didn't exist, back in the day. Back in those days the NHS provided service and these professionals provided genuine care. They also had me diagnosed and commenced medication within 9 hours of onset of what I later learned was AF.
From what I see on this forum from time to time and over many years, todays health care professionals can't even diagnose it from 9 weeks to 9 months !
My own experience over years and many sports/overuse/over exertion injuries including currently left shoulder again:
a good experienced physiotherapist is always superior when diagnosis and treatment of these type of persistent injuries are the problem.
They won’t suggest pharmaceuticals except pain killers in short term if very painful.
They will diagnose through manipulation and conversation with you. They’ll explain the issue and advise accordingly re improvement and recovery.
Expect a range of stretching exercises which they will demo for you and ask you to repeat for them during the appointment. They will video these for you to refer to at home (on mobile)
Then you have to follow the advice consistently at least once daily.
Realise that shoulder issues are some of the most persistent to overcome. Age makes recovery time even longer but consistently doing the prescribed stretches correctly is the only way. Do not expect a swift recovery.
Always good to revisit physiotherapist monthly for reassessment.
I get your drift. I also have a right shoulder ! It received an injection, over 2 years ago now, and has improved even more over time. Once the pain was controlled - yes I did exercises.
My left shoulder - when addressed by the MSK guy - could not be manouvered through the range of movements he needed to make a proper clinical assessment because of the extraordinary level of pain. Your comment ....... "they will diagnose through manipulation and conversation with you" ......... conversation was fine ........ manipulation impossible.
He too gave me an injection - this time it has failed totally.
I am not a Dr. by any means but have to have many MRI’s and they have helped my Orthopedic Dr’s and or Nerve Dr’s and my problem was immediately identified..
I am in constant AF and did not have any issue… Do you have a pacemaker? If so you need to make sure they know before the MRI.. Right before they do the MRI there needs to be someone to adjust it right before and right after.. That’s what my EP requires before a MRI but that just might be my EP.
Hope this Helps and I hope the MRI will address your issue and you feel better.,.
I have a pacemaker and will be going for an MRI on my ankle (and hopefully hip) in a month. They will have a rep from the pacemaker company on hand to put my pacemaker in MRI mode and then reset it afterwards. There will also be an EMT on hand in case I have another heart attack. But without getting my two, year-old injuries repaired, I have a difficult time exercising and I really, really need to get back to some semblance of fitness.
As to your shoulder, I was a ballet dancer for seventeen years and I know that in many cases an injury just needs time and RICE (rest, ice, compression and elevation). But I also know that if there is a tear in a ligament, no amount of RICE is going to repair the injury. My ankle never got better after six months, needs surgery and only an MRI will reveal the exact details for the surgeon. as to my hip, the x-ray didn't show the cause but the ankle guy suspects it is a tear in the labrum (a muscle in the hip) that will need surgery to repair.
If it were me, I'd give it a month-six weeks of the prescribed RICE and then, if it is still bothering you, push to have an MRI done.
As to having an MRI done with Afib, well they got doctors around for that if something goes wrong, right?
Thanks for your comments. The one thing that has emerged from the answers to my original post is the fact that no healthcare professional, apart from the Radiographer, Sonographer who carried out the original XRay and Ultrasound and more recently the local ( 30 miles away ) Muscoskeletal Specialist has ever carried out an examination of the left shoulder. My family Dr. ( our GP ) wouldn't know it if she stumbled over my damaged shoulder. Even my wife can see an obvious abnormality in the left shoulder now that wasn't there originally ( 6 months ago ) - not just see but feel a difference in the bone surface itself.
Of these 3 so called healthcare professionals 2 saw my shoulder in the context of their professional skills the third, the MSK guy, has forced my arm and shoulder through various manouvres and ended up giving me a steroid injection which has failed .... made no difference at all.
The MSK guy is supposed to phone me on Wednesday to see how it is 😱😱😱😂😂😂
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Mri with contrast 
MRI TOMORROW 
Mri scan 4 weeks after ablation 
MRI results yesterday. Anybody in a similar awful position please?
